Living History
LHVW Fundraiser 2017

Latest Followers:

Elisabeth Tiponi de Salem Mansur Marawi Una Lunaqat Lady Leena Fandango Merry Chase JPdAmboise Duke of Marlborough Kghia Lady Hartfield Claire-Sophie de Rocoulle Lorsagne de Sade Gabrielle de Polastron Leopoldina Duke of Richmond Bebe Begonia Tatiana Dokuchic

Outlander

Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
2 years ago
1,652 posts

Outlander Season 1 01.jpg

l have to say that I love everything about Outlander; I love the original book series by Diana Gabaldon as well as her spin-offs including the Lord John Grey series.  I'm also a big fan of the STARZ Outlander TV series produced by Ronald D. Moore and I'm currently suffering from droughtlander waiting for Season 3 to air.

Given the timeframe & subject matter, I figure there must be a few more faithful followers in our midst (or members that could easily be swayed into joining the Outlander cult) so I thought I'd devote a discussion to all things Outlander.

Please note that I will, on occasion, include some Amazon afflilate links and any revenue made from following these will go towards support of this site.

Outlander Season 2.jpg

So what do you think?  What's your favourite novel?  Have you read them all?

q?_encoding=UTF8&MarketPlace=US&ASIN=044      q?_encoding=UTF8&MarketPlace=US&ASIN=044      q?_encoding=UTF8&MarketPlace=US&ASIN=178

How do you think the TV series compares with the books? 

Sing us your song ...

q?_encoding=UTF8&MarketPlace=US&ASIN=B01   q?_encoding=UTF8&MarketPlace=US&ASIN=B01




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site

updated by @tatiana-dokuchic: 27 Nov 2016 10:06:36AM
Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
2 years ago
1,652 posts

Having just declared my love for Outlander, I have to admit that there was a point early on in the first novel where I almost quit reading. 

SPOILERS AHEAD

Yep, when Jamie beat Claire as Diana Gabaldon says:

For years and years, that scene has been a source of controversy. Because it’s told from Claire’s point of view, and she certainly thinks it’s a big deal. Some readers — particularly some female readers — often share her sense of indignation and outrage and start hopping up and down about, how dare Jamie? How dare I?

How Outlander Tackled the Book’s Most Controversial Scene

Sign me up as indignat and outraged.  Now I've read DG's essay on the subject (if I find it again I'll link to it) as well as many of the responses that came out after it was aired on television so I can understand why she wrote it. 

At the time I was reading the book there wasn't all the background/commentary that exists today so I decided to keep going for a bit and see how their relationship developed.

I still can't reconcile my image of Claire as a strong woman with someone who would willing stay with a partner who felt justified in disciplining her.  If Jamie had continued to think punishment was an acceptable way to behave towards his wife I would have quit after book one and pretended that Claire made it home to Frank and lived happily ever after.

And about that particular TV scene.  Some people thought it was all kinds of funny. I just gritted my teeth and waiting for it to be over.  I'm more inclined to be of the same mind as Gellis Duncan in this deleted scene:




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site
Merry Chase
@merry-chase
2 years ago
154 posts

Outlander is a guilty pleasure. I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with it. 

I'm delighted with the concept, and how well the time travel is handled. It's fun and fascinating to see the family flit between eras and cope with the challenges of their multiple times. Historic detail is deftly handled, for the most part, and there's just enough interaction with actual historic figures---not so much that credulity is strained. 

Every now and then, however, some small thing occurs that yanks me out of my happy suspension of disbelief and makes me yell at the page, screen, or audiobook narrator. (Yes, I've indulged my guilty pleasure in all three forms.) 

The only example that comes immediately to mind, is what I think of as the fichu fiasco.  The horror of it drove details from my mind!

I'm sorry I don't recall the exact circumstances, or even in which tome this occurs, but a woman takes off her fichu and uses it as a rag. Someone had a sweaty brow, or was bleeding, or muddy. And Claire or some other woman whipped off her fichu to wipe it up. 

She wasn't a woman of substance, with a plethora of neatly laundered fichus waiting for her at home, nor was she such a light woman that she would really have been oblivious to the shocking scandal of taking off her fichu in public and going without it for the rest of the day. It was, given the laundering realities of the day, even less likely than for me to take off my blouse and bra on main street  to wipe someone's blood or mud away. 

I wouldn't do it. I would wipe the blood or mud up but I'd find something else to do it with. 

So when this scene first presented itself to me, what I do remember clearly, is that I yelled out loud, "She did NOT!" 

As distressing as such out-of-character, out-of-time moments are, they are not the worst. Of greater concern than the fichu or the famous spanking scene you mentioned, Tatiana, is the rape culture. I suppose it's realistic, that such a large proportion of people in the books were raped. In that time, or in this, rape happens, way too much, and doesn't get written about enough. So it's not just the fact of rapes that troubles me. 

I appreciate a lot of how Gabaldon handles the rapes, too. Victims suffer realistically from PTSD. There are broad consequences and deep scars to go with the rapes, for the most part. I find I can't write more than that without a bit of spoiling, so, -> Spoiler Alert <- 


I couldn't forgive her rapist along with Brianna. I know he got his in the end, fine, but the scene where she visits him in jail just doesn't ring true for me. She should want him to die slowly and painfully, then and there. 

And then there's Fergus. Child rape, shrugged off with savoir faire, just isn't realistic, when we know that victims of childhood rape tend to grow up to either commit child rapes themselves or be victims in abusive relationships later in life, especially without counseling. Sure, Fergus grown up isn't the easiest mate, he has his shortcomings, but he just doesn't seem to be as haunted by having been repeatedly violated as a child, as I would think probable. 

So, sometimes the Outlander books make me squirm. But sometimes I find them thrilling. And the thrill is not only from compelling storytelling of fascinating adventures. There are moments of depth, poignancy, that raise the whole thing above the level of confection, and clear up to art. Gabaldon uses her wild, centuries-hopping tale to reach real truths about the human heart and soul, and then, of course, I have to forgive her for everything---even the fichu fiasco. 

Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
2 years ago
1,652 posts

I most enjoyed your reply, Merry.  I've found myself puzzling over your points all week :)


Merry Chase:

The only example that comes immediately to mind, is what I think of as the fichu fiasco.  The horror of it drove details from my mind!

I'm sorry I don't recall the exact circumstances, or even in which tome this occurs, but a woman takes off her fichu and uses it as a rag. Someone had a sweaty brow, or was bleeding, or muddy. And Claire or some other woman whipped off her fichu to wipe it up. 

I don't remember the specific example either but I have to say that I'm often conflicted by Claire's use of her clothing & other property.  There's one instance where pages are devoted to the creation of Claire's dress for an important event.  Of course she ends up first dragging it through the mud and then having someone bleed-out all over it.  Ruined I say!!  I'm using the term "conflicted" because this type of thing happens often and I always end up feeling materialistic and petty compared to Claire who gives not a whit for her things.

I agree with you about that jail scene.  I often feel that DG doesn't know exactly what to do with Brianna.  It's like she's a necessary character but not really a loved character.  Probably this is just my own bias as I find her annoying.  Brianna is there to drive the story forward and so she sometimes doesn't make a lot of sense along the way.

WRT Fergus, I actually hadn't thought of that before. 

As you say, in general DG doesn't want to gloss over the emotional repercussions of assault.  I think that the problem is that there's so much assault going on it's hard to balance it all.  At the time when Fergus is attacked by BJ Randall, both Claire & Jamie are suffering so much you just can't add more suffering from Fergus into the mix.  Fergus suffering is "saved" until books later.

You can see a problem with this balance in Season 2 of the TV series as well.  In the books, Jamie & Claire have time to spend in the Abbey so that he's on the road to recovery by the time they enter French society.  In the series, the timeframe has to be shortened so Jamie's recovery is extended through the season.  For me it meant that Jamie & Claire had very little time to enjoy (if that's the correct word) each other's company before they were again thrown into dire emotional straits.  I could have used a bit more happiness in the mix and I think it would have made the loss of Faith even more poignant. 

Of course it's oh so easy to be an armchair quarterback!


Merry Chase:

So, sometimes the Outlander books make me squirm. But sometimes I find them thrilling. And the thrill is not only from compelling storytelling of fascinating adventures. There are moments of depth, poignancy, that raise the whole thing above the level of confection, and clear up to art. Gabaldon uses her wild, centuries-hopping tale to reach real truths about the human heart and soul, and then, of course, I have to forgive her for everything---even the fichu fiasco. 

Well said.  I too can forgive her everything!




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site

updated by @tatiana-dokuchic: 01 Dec 2016 12:56:39PM
Merry Chase
@merry-chase
2 years ago
154 posts

Yes, Claire's disregard for clothing is general, and not limited to fichus. It seems to me not very realistic to be so unmaterialistic in the 18th century, when she knows damn well how hard one had to work to create those material goods. But perhaps the Enlightened mind is able to be more philosophical about wasting hours of sewing and perfectly good fabric. 

And then, Outlander's not the only 18th c series guilty of a cavalier attitude toward wardrobe. Another great love of mine is Poldark. I first read some of those in the late 70s, when my mom picked them up while traveling in Cornwall and passed them along to me. The latest TV adaptation frequently has me wringing my hands over mistreated clothing. Recently both Demelza and Ross were standing in Nampara Cove with the waves lapping up to about midcalf, the saltwater ruining petticoats, skirts, stockings, breeches, and yes, they were even wearing their shoes. But so strong were their emotions, we were to understand, that they were completely oblivious to the action of saltwater on their clothes and skin. 

Maybe I should be able to embrace all this as art, a part of the storyteller's craft. It's not supposed to be real, right? It's a story! But still, if it's a historical novel, I want it as real as possible, including attitudes toward material possessions. 

Merry Chase
@merry-chase
2 years ago
154 posts

I see that novel #9 is on its way...someday...publication date still unknown. From its title I'm wondering if it's going to be the last. Go Tell the Bees That I Am Gone. 

Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
last year
1,652 posts
Merry Chase:

I see that novel #9 is on its way...someday...publication date still unknown. From its title I'm wondering if it's going to be the last. Go Tell the Bees That I Am Gone. 

DG has said that there will be a tenth novel.  I'm not sure but I'm thinking that will be the last one.  She's also mention a prequel involving Jamie's parents.

For 2017 she's releasing Seven Stones to Stand or Fall


What this is, is a “Collection of Outlander Fiction,” as the cover states. It’s seven novellas, all written by me, and all dealing with the interesting side-stories and lacunae of the Outlander universe.

Though I've read a few of those seven novellas, I'm looking forward to reading the others :)




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site
Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
last year
1,652 posts

Outlander Season 3 Trailer - We still have ages to wait!!




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site
Merry Chase
@merry-chase
last year
154 posts

I'm not a Starz subscriber so I'm way behind. I still haven't seen the second half of Season 2. Arrrgh!

Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
last year
1,652 posts

You've still got time, Merry.  I believe that Season 3 doesn't start until September.  I'm lucky here in Canada as Outlander is on one of my regular channels (though it has tons of commercials and some content cuts that I don't appreciate).

I'm really looking forward to the next season as it's based on Voyager, one of my favourite books in the series.  The Outlander crew has taken over the Black Sails sets in South Africa for the second half of the story so it should be spectacular.  I"m quite a fan of Black Sails, a prequel to Treasure Island, as well.




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site
Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
last year
1,652 posts

Seven Stones to Stand or Fall: A Collection of Outlander Fiction was just released this week!

q?_encoding=UTF8&MarketPlace=US&ASIN=039

A magnificent collection of Outlander short fiction—including two never-before-published novellas—featuring Jamie Fraser, Lord John Grey, Master Raymond, and many more, from #1 New York Times bestselling author Diana Gabaldon

“The Custom of the Army” begins with Lord John Grey being shocked by an electric eel and ends at the Battle of Quebec. Then comes “The Space Between,” where it is revealed that the Comte St. Germain is not dead, Master Raymond appears, and a widowed young wine dealer escorts a would-be novice to a convent in Paris. In “A Plague of Zombies,” Lord John unexpectedly becomes military governor of Jamaica when the original governor is gnawed by what probably wasn’t a giant rat. “A Leaf on the Wind of All Hallows” is the moving story of Roger MacKenzie’s parents during World War II. In “Virgins,” Jamie Fraser, aged nineteen, and Ian Murray, aged twenty, become mercenaries in France, no matter that neither has yet bedded a lass or killed a man. But they’re trying. . . . “A Fugitive Green” is the story of Lord John’s elder brother, Hal, and a seventeen-year-old rare book dealer with a sideline in theft, forgery, and blackmail. And finally, in “Besieged,” Lord John learns that his mother is in Havana—and that the British Navy is on their way to lay siege to the city.

Filling in mesmerizing chapters in the lives of characters readers have followed over the course of thousands of pages, Gabaldon’s genius is on full display throughout this must-have collection.

I've been anticipating this release for months now, teased as I was by DG's published snippets.  I found it most enjoyable, especially since it filled in a few blanks in my Outlander world knowledge.  I especially liked reading the story of Minnie & Hal in "Fugitive Green".

Now if she would only get around to finishing "Bees" ....




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site

updated by @tatiana-dokuchic: 04 Jul 2017 12:51:34PM
Merry Chase
@merry-chase
last year
154 posts

I preordered 7 Stones as an audiobook and am enjoying. Halfway through zombies, my favorite so far is Space Between, because I'm finding the young wold-be novice a very compelling character. I hope we'll see more of her and I suspect we might, the way things were left. 

Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
last year
1,652 posts

I enjoyed Joan & Michael's story as well, Merry.  She certainly has some unusual talents.  I'm also interested in hearing Master Raymond's full story.  DG has promised to get to that at some point.




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site
Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
last year
1,652 posts

Woohoo!  Outlander Season 3 is finally here!  Voyager is one of my favourite books in the series so I'm really looking forward to this.  To celebrate, here's some fun:




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site
Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
last year
1,652 posts

Some interesting food for thought: Why Outlander’s Birth Scene Was So Unusual

The whole "twilight-sleep birth" just freaks me out.




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site
Lady Leena Fandango
@lady-leena-fandango
last year
353 posts

I've recently discovered Outlander and am nearly done with Season 1.

Haven't read the books but I plan to, the series is fantastic.

I adore the show and I have to say Sam Heughan, well, color me blushing!  LOL

Mansur Marawi
@mansur-marawi
last year
60 posts

That video was hilarious!

Also... just caught up on the season and, yes, that Twilight sleep birth was quite freaky! So far, I like season 3 better than season 2. My dad mentioned a pacing problem, though. He said season 2 was too slow and season 3 seems to be overcompensating by speeding through time -- and that no one ages properly. I kind of agree. What I love about the TV version is that we get to explore so many different eras and places, and that they are all so lovingly and carefully rendered.




--
Owner, Larl Valley:
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Larl%20Valley/145/92/22
Lady Leena Fandango
@lady-leena-fandango
last year
353 posts

Hello everyone, I'm nearly done with Season two of Outlander and still loving the series.  While I haven't read the books, I hope that Santa will provide the first few this holiday season. Wink

Regarding the beating scene with Claire and Jamie: 

In my mind, Claire was nearly raped by Black Jack Randall near the stream after she initially arrived in 1743, I wonder if the series was showing that Claire perhaps stayed because, what else were her options at the time?  She couldn't very well wander off to another city and get a job since traveling along the open road on her own may have been worse.  I'm surmising that sticking around was the 'lesser of two evils' as she married Jamie to stay out of the clutches of the British soldiers in the first place.  Assuming that women are also 'property of a husband' in 1743, if she had left she might have been delivered right back to Jamie.

Jamie is listening to all the men on how to 'handle' a wife and even sex and is true to his time.  Jamie is stunned that Claire even enjoys sex and that women could even do that.  How the series is handling it seems era appropriate, revolting to modern women as it may be.

I wish they had included the deleted scene with Gellis Duncan talking to Jamie that if he beats Claire again, she'd hate to 'spoil a pretty package' with her concoctions and get her revenge on him.  That was priceless and a sad loss for the television series, in my humble opinion.  Gellis, being a modern woman from 1968, is putting him in his place and that scene was fantastic.  Jamie seems a bit stunned and almost fearful.  Gellis, you rock!

I did read the Vanity Fair piece that you linked to, Tatiana.  It made a lot of good points as well.

Just some thoughts I had .... I'll probably read more of this and comment further.

Cheers all,

Leena :)


updated by @lady-leena-fandango: 05 Oct 2017 12:06:34PM
Mansur Marawi
@mansur-marawi
last year
60 posts

I keep checking this as I get caught up. How are we all feeling about it at present? That last scene made me lol, but I do think they're all having a liiiittle too much fun for people who are supposed to be saving a teenager from slavers.

About the controversial beating scene that took place several books and seasons ago, I shared the indignant 21st century take on it for awhile. One of the most interesting things about RP, though, is to put yourself into the shoes of another character from another time. When my character (Xander, not Mansur) went on his fascinating jaunt to the now-defunct Deep South sim, I found myself -- a 21st century feminist woman -- in the surprising position of playing a young, 18th century Ottoman aristocrat in the late 1700s in the American south. And that young man beat his then-fiance. 

And someone listened in through the wall and just laughed and laughed, too.

It was the damnedest thing.

Suddenly, I was transported into Jaime's shoes. Well... a much nerdier, younger, not-at-all-Scottish version of those shoes, but still. And you know what? It made sense. My character truly thought that he was protecting their future marriage, their reputations, even her safety, by impressing upon her the severity of her actions and imposing consequences unpleasant enough to be a deterrent - but far less harmful than what might have happened had her actions been public knowledge.

So you can fundamentally disagree with something and think it is wrong. I'm no proponent of domestic violence. But... at the same time, I kind of get it. In a time and a place in which most people grow up being routinely beaten by the people who love them most of all, their parents, then I can completely see how a person of that time might view that sort of behavior as acceptable and even laudable or necessary. I think the author was just being true to her character. 




--
Owner, Larl Valley:
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Larl%20Valley/145/92/22
Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
2 weeks ago
1,652 posts

Woohoo!  Outlander Season 4 starts this weekend!!

Outlander Season 4.jpg

True love knows no season: Outlander’s triumphant return




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site
Tatiana Dokuchic
@tatiana-dokuchic
yesterday
1,652 posts

Loved Claire's medicine box in the book so I'm happy to see it here!

outlanderclairemedicinekit1541694232.jpg

Outlander's Set Decorator Offers a Behind-the-Scenes Look at Claire Fraser's Incredible Medicine Box

I'm enjoying Season 4 so far.  How about you?




--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Co-owner of the Duché de Coeur ~ Webmistress of this site