What an interesting read! Merci!

This is an incredibly interesting topic

I remember when creating the Order of Precedence discussing whether or not the Mesdames came after or before the Provences and Artois'. But I think this pretty much sums it up :P

Also, I've been working on the precedence of the non-royals, which is slightly more complicated - mainly because after the duc-et-pairs and the ducs, the precdence is more determined by the age of the title and the land attached to it, rather than the title itself - hence some comtes were given higher precedence over marquis' etc.

Good point on les comtes. For those of us who are Anglophones, we can consider the cases of the Duke of Edinburgh, the Duke of York, and, very unusually, in our time, the Earl of Wessex, who all hold the rank of Prince of the United Kingdom and the style of Royal Highness. The Earl of Wessex was not created a royal duke at his marriage, unlike his older brother and, a few months ago, his nephew, because he will inherit his father's title, Duke of Edinburgh, at his father's death. But all these men are of the rank of prince royal, and such was the case with the Comtes de Provence and Artois, and holders of such titles before and after them as Duc de Bourgogne, Duc d'Angouleme, Duc de Normandie ( a title Louis XVI was inspired to give after a visit to Normandy), etc.

Yes. The question of precedence is hard at this time, mainly because of the death of the former Dauphin Louis-Ferdinand de France. For this reason, his younger children were technically only "Grandchildren" and not "Children of France", and there was the result for Clotilde vis-a-vis the title Madame Royale mentioned above.

I think the key thing for us all as courtiers to remember, whatever our rank, is that places were jealously guarded (heh, well by everyone except maybe Antoinette), that everyone knew the ranks of the highest - the ruling family and their blood relations, and probably those of the rank of at least duc as well, as well as those of their own rank, and fiercely defended against any encroachments by any who sought to advance at one's expense.

C'est vrai?? I have read quotations where she is addressed as "Your Majesty" ... I wonder if this is incorrect usage that came in with time, or with sucking up to her? Or maybe it is translation into English??? Eeeeeeks!! Pfft ... she'd have been happy with "yo, Tonia!" (Hahahahah NOT)

I know people who whould had aheadache only bu the half of the list... It needs a lot of reading skills. But is good to know how it was exactly, because if you translate good a title, you can see a lot of the noble weating it