I have been in sl for along time, and like many of us have been involed with many things and enjoyed them all.. What never sense to amaze me is that people in sl think they have the right to tell you whom you can be friends with, what court you can play in and in some case's what court you can start.

Isant SL what you make of if? Why do others feel the need to control others actions? at the end of the day SL is a game, it is suppost to be fun. Why do people think it is differnt in sl than it in rl?

There is always someone who wants to make your life difficualt because you dont ' play by the rules' they think you should.

I have had the privelage and honor to be apart of some wonderful rp's the work the builders have done to make things historicaly correct is amazing I take my hat off to them. Than something happens in some case's and for some reason it is all torn down. Courts come and go I know this but but so dose the work a person has done on that, which is sad.

You know I have a novel idea, if everyone is nice to each other and dosent listern to the rumour mill we might just have the makings of something wonderful.

There are heaps of wonderful people in the courts I have met lots of them, and there is equaly as many if not more people who set out to cause problems for others dilberatly making life hard for them.

Some times I realy wonder what the point of it all is, it is hard enough to build a successful rp let alone someone or some people who want to make life difficult..

I wish we could all just be nice to one another and respesct each otheras they say there is one in every crowd that will make that dream impossible to achive.

updated by @ladysatine-constantine: 06 Oct 2016 06:06:29AM

thank you dear for this post. The trouble you mention is a natural part of every gathering of people. There will always be someone who disagrees with the setting or the people. The problem is ver4y often that some choose a rather deconstructive and counterproductive way to utter their concerns. As in rl rational discussion are often of no help in these cases. Unfortunately.

Since I know what you are alluding at I think we should talk in a more concrete way about it. There have always been tensions among different communities. These are most likely to arise when mutual interests are concerned or even threatened. "copy courts" are surely a very common phenomena. I do not say that these are bad in every case, but once two courts with the same concept, timeframe and history are on the same playground this can be really confusing for the members on the one hand and very harmful for both groups on the other hand. None of them will ever be able to grow and stand out - and this will naturally cause tensions.

Yeah I know. it is an old topic and we already talked about it in the past. But its still omnipresent!

We have experienced this problem as well. It happened to us once that the "other" french court invited active members of our group to their group offering them fancy titles: This clearly lacks style in my opinion and undermines the hard work of other communities. Many of them also thought it was in fact one of our new groups...which made sense since the copy group almost had exactly the same name. This gets more frustrating once you learn that the founder of that copy group had lived amongst you for a pretty long period!

In a recent case I also learned that this person now uses our application forms for his own roleplay, evidently copying our system. I would not mind if that person had asked me to use them...as it is our intellectual property

Now you may ask: What were we supposed to do back then? We attempted to ignore it but made our point very clear to them as well. and one day we were lucky enough to see that this court had vanished. To get back to what you said: For a group manager it is painful to see that people decide to leave his group to join another with exactly the same theme. It is indeed a human reaction to react sensitively when you're disappointed. However, that does not mean we should appreciate such behaviour.It is SL and we are free to choose whatever we like.

But what if that "other person" refuses to accept reason? Yes, this is SL! But does that imply that we do not owe respect to the work of other people? A person who cannot understand this is both selfish and ignorant in my opinion.

Though it is SL we must not spurn someone else's work!

You have, quite effectively, summed up the maelstrom of thoughts and situations that I have experienced lately. When we come to SL for not only relaxation, enjoyment, and friendship, but also entertainment and recreation, it seems counterproductive when people attempt to direct us about and censor our contacts, or eradicate their perceived 'competition.'' This is all childish and petty. SecondLife is huge and there is room enough for everyone and there should be no one group or individual set up as judge, jury & executioner. I thank you for writing this post. It was well-written and well-thought.

Thank you ladies, it is hard to write something expressing your feelings at times without having it taken the wrong way in witch you had intented..

It was a calitvation of events that let me to write, over time the nail that put it in the perveriable coffen was only recently, a good friend of mine has planned for awhile now to start a court and in spite another person has decided to jump the gun and knowing full well that my friend was doing this era.

I concider myself an easy going person and friendly with alot, yes there are times my actions and words are taken in a way that I did not intend them to be taken, but that is what make us all uniquie if we were all the same it would be dull boaring... Each to their own I suppose, mybe it is me I just cannot understand why people are like this... All over I see alot of copy cat courts, do people not have an orgnial idea or is it ment as fattery to the orignal court? I dont know eaither or whom every started the court in the first place I can understand their feelings on the matter, but realy, I love to see a court developed that hasn't been done, I challenge anyone to take the oportunity to develop a court that hasnt been done, if there is one...

I would be realy nice to have some concideration for others and their work, but I suppose it comes back to the individual dosent it.

I have seen this also in other styles of RP as well. Last summer, while I was more or less "away" from the baroque monde, I watched with some detachment as several acquaintances built a medieval-ish village on certain lines ... and then two weeks after their sim had opened, a girl who had previously been affiliated with *that* RP, and her partner, began a second RP on almost identical lines, only slightly changed, and with a very similar name. To say it was annoying was an understatement. Steampunk, Gor, sci-fi, oh yes, now I recall a Roman copycat ... it happens everywhere. The best thing is to create something new, in the same genre as someone else is fine but if the exact thing you want has already been taken ... unless (and this is the only ONLY reason I could ever imagine for "stepping on toes", and all the same the new group would be well advised at all times to be on terms of friendship with the group which existed first) one is ABSOLUTELY certain that in builds, RP roles and scenes, tone, overall quality, all of one's proposed new RP would be UNQUESTIONABLY superior to what already exists ... just stay away.

What I have long observed, in our little world, is that so many of us want to be (for example) Marie-Antoinette. Be the star, have the top billing! But how many people want to actually do the research and role-play that role requires? In the sense of learning the courtiers, so that one knows them by their SL names and can then address them properly (Comtesse, Your Grace, Your Highness, etc.) and refer to others in conversation? As indeed is expected. Or limit themselves to what is known historically of this person, her character and ways of being, while still portraying her in a faithful way, and communicating her being and personality in the role play? Playing any famous personage isn't all cakes and gowns, or whiskey and swords, it's hard work, enjoyable if you have the aptitude for it, but I've played historical personages and I must say the freedom I have with my little Elisabeth is much more *fun* in many ways.

One of the best courts in our short history has to have been the courts, first the duchy and then the court of the Netherlands, maintained by dear Roy and Susannah Allen. The first was a court they created, what I would call a "ficticious" court, as opposed to a strictly "historical" court based on historic figures and happenings, but which was given esteem by other courts because of the quality of RP encouraged there and of course the open hospitality which they extended to all baroque courtiers. When they chose to move into a RP of the court of the United Netherlands, I think I can say with confidence that everyone was pleased and wished them well, and that their court ceremonies were always well-attended. I have always thought that this path is one too little trod, of picking out a locale, a family, a circumstance, that does not step on another's toes, and going down it with gusto and good will. I mean nothing bad by "ficticious" and think there is far more room in our world for courts that are from the country of the mind; the Coeurs are another court that is not "exactly" or perfectly based on history, yet our world is very dependent on it, and no one thinks twice about it being "made up" because it is true, it is authentic to itself, and it is open and welcoming to other courts. Also it is the dear child of good and creative parents. These things I think are key, essential to any good and lasting court whether it fits my definition of "fictitious" or "historical".

In SL, as in RL, there are going to be few people you can trust absolutely. Time and trials will show you which persons are - and are not - worthy of trust. And, as in RL, the more successful something becomes, the more people will come around who will cause problems. Fortunately, also as in RL, the more people will also come around who will be positive contributors, who will add and not subtract and detract. Also, the nice thing about studying these courts and these time periods is, that one learns of the ladies and gentlemen who lived the high-wire act of life at court, who had enemies all around, and who learned to be kind, truly gentle (genteel), witty, charming, and pleasant ... and to slice their enemies into sushi appetizers before the enemies had a chance to strike.

Bonne chance to all, whatever your intentions ... but if you have bad intentions you'd best know the little duchesse has eyes in the back of her head!!

intresting way of putting it my dear duchesse and your right the way they dealt with things back than was very intresting at times, may not of always been nice but one can appecate history as it was regarless of the coniqences... I suppose it all comes back to the question why are we all so infatuated with history more importanly the time periods we play. If is funny realy we all do our best to avoid drama funny thing is the courts in history were full of drama if they werent why would we be intrested in rp them, they would never of been writen about so colourfuly to get our attentions in the first place..

So I suppose it is all part and parcel of rping. And your right rping is not just about slapping on a pretty gown and title, it takes work and resurch to develop the charter you play, some times it is not that easy to find information on the person in history, eshpshly if it is spelt a differnt way due to translation. The thing I have found is once you have a charter you never stop resurching it, there is always more to discover some where in the big wide word, even in private collections.

Don't you think that people who try to control others in SL have no much control in RL?

I suppose it comes back to the indival, how one acts accodding to their own concious. Every one has the right to play his or her sl the way they chose fit. Not everyone with agree but I think there needs to be ALOT more understanding and respect for each other, I am sure we have all been guilty of this in one form or another, having a bad day or taking things a different way than you would other wise do.

I had people try to force their ideas on me and even to the point got rather upset with me over something that I was not aware of not been a mind reader on. Let people be themselves nobody has the right to control another person's actions, they themselves are responsable for that. If they want to play with other alts it is their choice and noone elses. If they want to run around looking like a over grown wolf, even thoughs of us who wish to rp as a child some places ban children,who are we to judge. Have we suddenly become better than everyone else because we rp in the courts?

It is not easy getting along with others at times, but it challenges us to be better human beings to try. This is bring out the trekkie in mebut maybe we need to look at start trek and how they treat each other, just might make a difference. Makes you wonderwhat it realy is we are attracted to in the courts or any role play, something only the indival can answer.

I do not think we are talking about the same issue here.

Anyone can choose to whoever he wants - a child or a horse - as long as this role is historically accurate. In fact I would appreciate more children in the roleplay in general.

But if it comes to the point that a member who previously received a title runs to five other courts to get one there as well it gets slightly tricky. You are free to choose who you want to be in second life of course if it works with the setting and the historical background of the place.

Do you thkink community A is willing to have you as an official part of the setting if you run to cummunity B, C and D? Such a person can no longer be regarded as a reliable, dedicated and faithful member of that group. We have had many people holding titles for the sake of the fancy look of it. However, they did not contribute to the roleplay experience in anyway. In such a case, i think the community has the liberty to revoke a title.

I have now been at Versailles for one whole year. In that time sincecoming there as a newbie and a noobseeinghow many people are actually willing to work towards the goals of some body's else vision, amazed me. Most seem to want to be important without doing anything important.I have seen people who will put down efforts of others, yet contributenothing themselves. All of us are imperfect and most of us are open to suggestions, constructive criticism for improving, or what have you, after all Rome was not built by one person's ideas. At first I did not understand the term "title hunter" but as time went on, I began to see it in action. People flitting from court to court for bigger and more grander titles. In real life whenone wants a better job position and title, we ask what it is we can do in order to getthat better title and pay. What happened to approaching the court's management to see what "you" personallycould do to make role play better or how you can contribute?Court management love people like that, it shows comittment and team spirit for the common goal of having a great court.When did a court come to evolve around one person or some grand title? What happened to loyalty and fidelity to a court? When people jump around from court to court...why are their motives never questioned as to why? I do agree, at times, it can be for personalities disorders...smiling, as my personality is out of order at that particular court. It is nice to see new courts come into being...but only for the right reason...creativity, not to be able to say you are a king or queen, to getting kicks with a crown,and what have you, orto lord it over others, as you will be a court of one in no time short. If you have never learned to cooperate at somebody's else court with support of working toward a common goal of making it appealing and fun for all, it also won't happen at the court in which you left to join or create. There is so much to learn from any court's management. I personallyhad no idea of what went into the running of a court until I started watching at Versailles. We as courtiers take so much for granted. We come to play and dont care that somebody stayed up for days to build something or gave up something in real life rather it was time or money or whatever need to be pushed aside. Instead of jumping from court to court we need to look at ourselves to see if the problem is us. Because if it is us, thenwe will be a problem no matter where we go or even if we form our own court.Btw, others can seeif we are going to be a problem as well.If one truly wants to be great one must learn to serve others in supporting whatever you can andassisting where everyou can beusedand then you can hope to attain to greatness and a great title. Just the thoughts of a simple frenchcourtier.

Here's another viewpoint to consider.

One of the reasons that I came to SL was to further explore historical art & architecture. I had already done that for years in TheSims2 and SL offered a richer environment for this pursuit. Within my first month (I probably still looked a lot like "Ruth" - lol) I was targeted by bullies who wanted to control what I could or could not do within the historical community. My initial reaction ofshock & anger was brief. Let's face it, there are bullies everywhere, SL is no exception, and there are effective methods to deal with these kinds of people.

Having had this experience, I have a lot of sympathy for people just starting out in the community.

Let's be practical, if you have agroup that reflects a RL historical situation you are probably not going to be the only one. As I have said before, I could care less if there are multiplegroups based on the same geographic location and timeframe. What I do care about, however, is the integrity ofagroup and its leaders. As far as I am concerned, anygroup that is honest, ethical and fair is a welcome addition that helps to strengthen us as a whole.

Just my L$2 worth )

--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I never throught of it that way, you make very vaild points Tatiana. It is aways amasing to me how no matter how one is feeling or has an option of it takes just one person and your view point is open to knew oportunities.. Proberly in hidesite you already knew just didnt think about it that way...

I have seen courts come and go, the ones go are usely due to another having issue that they have the same era as them and in some case's are bullied to go and have just got to the point it just ant worth it..

I think in this matter I have been wrong,thank youTatina I have always known you to be wise. But in saying that some people cant work together, but each to their own. Lets us all enjoy sl that way we would like to and not put demands on others.

The more I think about this the more it completely irks me. This isn't about telling someone where they can roleplay, who they can be friends with, or what kind of court they can start. I have been in the SL Courts for a few years and this is what I see.

There have been far too many cases of people that love "title shopping" in the the SL courts and the people in charge of the various courts have grown tired of it. When building a court roleplay you're wanting to find like minded people that shareand add tothe vision of what you are wanting to create and make it enjoyable for eveyone. Those creating these courts spend a lot of time, energy and money to create something beautiful. A nice environment for family and friends to enjoy, learn and have fun. When you have the "title shoppers" going from court to court looking for something bigger and better yet not really contributing anything to the roleplay those in charge create measures to keep this "title shopping" from happening. Codes of conduct are created explaining exactly what your role is in the court you wish to join and it is expressly written that if you take this role in this court you are not to go "title shopping" in another court for something better. If you decide you wish to go to another court or create your own court you must leave your title in the previous court you joined behind. You are also told if you are caught going around "title shopping" you can be kicked out of the court for doing that.

When you join a court, get a code of conduct, sign it and return it you are agreeing to the terms of that court roleplay and the code of conduct you signed. When you do something that violates that it'sa breech of contract just as in rl and you pay the price for it. It's not telling you what you can or can't do, who you can be friends with nor what court you cancreate on your own. It's called holding you to something you signed and agreed to. To me that makes perfect sense and it isn't telling you who you can be friends with.

As far as the "copy cat courts", that is another problem entirely and unfortunately not much can be done about that. There are a few courts that have been in sl for years and have an excellent reputation, ie Versailles, Orange-Nassau, Boheme. These are well established courts that pretty much all in court roleplay know about. When you have courts such as these with established reputations, roleplays and such it gets rather annoying when people decide to steal an idea and put their own spin on it that ends up causing nothhing but drama.

I myself do not understand the need for there to be copycat courts at all. The baroque court era is not the only time frame that can be done in sl though for some reason that is what people are stuck in. There are so many other wonderful time frames and courts that can be done that there would be no need for any copycat courts. But that would require someone to have an original idea and that seems to beyond peoples way of thinking for some reason.

In short there isn't much to be done for these copycat courts except for the original court to either try and bring the copycat into an agreement and merge the roleplays orstand their ground and keep doing what they are doing; having a fabulous roleplay and a reputation for excellence that will outlast said copycat court.

As far as telling you who you can be friends with. No rational adult would try to tell someone who they could or couldn't be friends with. This isn't middle school after all.

And lastly for court roles. Like I said, if you join a court and are given a code of conduct to agree to and sign before joining a court you know exactly what you are getting into when you join that court. When you are kicked out of a court for bad conduct you loose your right to complain about it as you did agree to and sign a code of conduct. You knew what you were getting into beforehand.