hello everyone,

I think the time has come to start a discussion about what content we as the users agree to post on the ning. There has been an ongoing - andfor the content creators sometimes very annoying -controversy about ooc photos with people in bikinis or cows that act like human beings.

let's first of all resume what the primary of this site is: A depiction of our roleplay lifes in Second Life and a platform to discuss topics relevant for the historical communities.

so is it wrong to post photos that serve an OOC purpose? the question is rather if this is meant to be a purely roleplay area or a mix.

which maturity rating applies for the ning? should the depictionof half naked bodies be prohibited?

and are we just limited to a european context? or should we intregate roelpalyers with different backgrounds as the noble courts and lands?

the answers to these questions do not seem to be clear to everyone including me. I think a discussion might therefore be a good idea. after all that's what a community is a bout: discourse as a way to find solutions.

I would therefore like to suggest a solutionto the ooc vs ic conflict. A friend of mine, the contessa di foscari, had the excellent to create an OOC section with photos and such. I think the out of character aspect is of much importance for a community. OOC parties for instance give people an opportunity to meet more people outside their normal roles. At court social functions can even impede social contacts between individuals - blame the hierarchy.

updated by @anne-comtesse-de-noailles: 06 Oct 2016 06:07:10AM

Good post Maria,

I think we all need to take a deep breath, step back away from the role play drama, get back into our rl skins and take a look at the behavior as rl people. I have been administrator of several forums for many years and it's not an easy job. One one hand you want people to be able to express themselves on the other hand you can't allow flaming or let discussions get out of hand or everyone gets upset.

While I don't agree with some of the things posted here on RC I recognize that this is a community of many different people with different ideas of what is funny or rude or obscene and I think we all need to practice some tolerance rather than be at each other's throats over some things that are really silly to begin with. What a waste of time to come to RC read something that you know will make you upset and then post something that will make other people upset.

I think this forum should be geared to any similar court community not just European. I think we should discuss anything that can impact our communities or businesses. I think role play posts should be allowed and the content be kept to historical realism or historical romantic fiction not pure fantasy. We are not a fantasy forum with fairies and unicorns other impossible characters flying around. While I do find the humor in such things I am not ready to say that they belong in RC.

That's my two cents...:)

Excellent suggestion!

The Duch de Coeur focus is not IC, but it is intended to be semi-serious as RL in the 18th century. I personally would prefer to see the core part of Ning focused on historic life and products. I enjoy seeing the research that people do, and the stories that people create related to human life. There is so much to explore!!!

Regarding OOC experiences, seeing personal photos of various locations could be fun as long as they do not exceed the limits set by the administrator. There would be nothing wrong with establishing links to external photo sites for OOC experiences.

As far as maturity level, there is a mix of G and M sims. The duchy has both (Languedoc and Provence Coeur Est are the only G regions). Personally, I believe we should be targetting the lowest common denominator. I would like to see kids involved in serious discussions. After all, the events that occurred in our time changed the course of governments throughout Europe and North America.

As far as the context, I'm not sure it should be focused on Europe alone, although we start getting into gray areas when we move outside of Europe. For example, North America strongly influenced what happened in Europe. The American Revolution impacted France enourmously, and may have influenced the French Revolution. There are also impacts from the West Indies, slave trade with Africa (yes, France did it too), the Moors in Spain, a huge impact of Asian trade, and the impact of Imperialism throughout the world.

We do want to encourage people to be themselves, but I am aware of a number of people that have given up coming here because the content has reached the point of foolishness with a great deal of arguing and disagreements between people that previously deeply respected each other.

I have never brought up thissubject because I honestly don't believe in having a lot of rules for a site. For one thing,they areimpractical to try to enforceasit's really the spirit of the rule that is important.

I do believe that a community works best when common sense and civility is applied by all concerned. That's the reason for the " Drama Free Zone " approach which, for the most part, that has worked out quite well over the last 20 months that the site has been open.

As far as content goes, I have always been ok with both In Character (IC) and Out of Character (OOC) content including anything from RL that people want to share with us. After all, I'm the one that just posted RL pics of her new puppy ) As long as it's kept in the right section & category it's usually good for me. Frankly, I never thought of this site as a place that was limited onlyto historical discussion.

What I would like to maintain is a sense of balance. I would like to keep this a place where everyone gets a chance to contribute and shine. That's the reasonwhy photos are limited to 12 in the first 100. It's also the reason that I have asked people that have posted 50 videos in a row to remove most of them. Those things are easy (though time consuming) to regulate.

What is harder to balance is the written content and this is where I would really appreciate everyone's help. Onediscussion a week about your .... (new puppy/ latest merchandise /duck / fairy wings / coronation/ you name it) ... will probably be enjoyed by all. Fifteen post a week about that same thing and the site is unbalanced and people start mumbling. Of course, I'm exaggerating to make a point but this isa place where common sense & courtesycanbe applied.

I have considered creating specialgroups for Merchants, Animals, Fantasy etc.which means thatthose topicswouldhave to posted inthat group and not in Discussions, Blogs etc. The idea of having to police this makes my head hurt so I'm hoping that people use their best judgement with the setup that we have now and not make these restrictions necessary.

As for content rating, we're pretty much PG here and always have been. I take a quick look at the pics and have disallowed those that includedfull frontal nudity. I don't consider people "half clothed" to warrant an M rating (and I'm Canadian for gosh sakes ) Likewise, I have never seen text that is more than mildly suggestive and I'm not expecting that to change.

Finally, I would ask people to assume good faith when dealing with others. This site is suppose to be fun and relaxing for all of us. Let's try to keep it that way!

--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

true. i fully gree with you on everything you stated in your comment.

we had those infamous photos of people in bikinis from versailles...I personally am still not sure if it is the right place...but people like to see themselves on photos for that purpose i also created a facebook account for versailles...everyone is welcome to "like" me (lol) and upload some photos to the site. we can add a link here

this discussion was intended to set an example of how problems can be dealt with in a more mature way and thank god its possible!!! *wipes off the sweat from her forehead*

true. I dont necessarily see the need for it either...but I sometimes have qualms to upload an ooc photo, because i respect the work tatiana and the members have done here to give historical roleplay in sla more "serious" or let me say professional image.

many thanks to all of you whoever you may be

Take your time, Tat, I'll keep the spot for you while you're afk: I got my car's fire extinguisherat hand.

~ bless you, Myron ~

I agree with all that is being said....within the courts there are varying degrees of roles...I for one am a courtesan. People do feel like Ning is home. People can and doexpress themselves without being vulgar. We all do need a measure of tolerance, because what may be vulgar to me...may not be to you. I was alsoone of those who was pictured in a modestbikini with a swim cover....not a thong...regular cut and regular top...with a pretty covering, just dancing, at a occ party. Our lives are mixturebetween rl and our second life. Changing the flavor this ning might hurt it to a certain degree. Most of us are not stuff shirts, we laugh and have fun and that is depicted in our pictures. If we do divide into separate sections, I will still be me...but post where I am directed to. This is suppose to be a fun, informative, and insightful site, which it is. Other have create sites that mimic this one like a mirror...the life that brings this one to being...is not there. I dont wish to cause anyone any grief in my portrayalof my character. Within the real courts..there were also people who were moralless and corrupt. Not all were courtiers you really want to know or be associated with, butnevertheless they and theirpersonalities were a fact. I agree children can learn a lot of historical information here, and on the other hand...the information must grab them, to want to be here. You go to youtube.com. A lot of history is being taught to children in ways that will get them interested in hear it by having them listen to it, leading to them hopefully reading about it. There is onevery popular group of teachers...and yes they are real teachers, who call themselves historyteachers. They set history to popular music. Thus they incorporate music that appeals to the kids...just changing the lyrics. As it is nowa known fact that children repond better to the music and lyrics rather than the written word. Which is a shame, but a fact of our current generation of young ones.

IfI have offended anyone in my character, I am sorry. But Courtesan existed then and they exist now, different word. Just instruct me as to what you would like me to do and I will do it, as I value being a member of this community, as do so many others here. Clarification is needed, just a bit, but not a police state.

LOL Lord Myron!!

You've reminded me that humour is always an important component of any community )

--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I agree with what Tatiana said aboutbalance:

What is harder to balance is the written content and this is where I would really appreciate everyone's help. Onediscussion a week about your .... (new puppy/ latest merchandise /duck / fairy wings / coronation/ you name it) ... will probably be enjoyed by all. Fifteen post a week about that same thing and the site is unbalanced and people start mumbling. Of course, I'm exaggerating to make a point but this isa place where common sense & courtesycanbe applied.

Malo e lelei ... Dear Prince. I mostly have appreciated your contribution to our mutual cultural understanding. I would hate to see you leave now. Fakamolemole

Dear Princesse, a cortigiane oneste was a very rich and complex advancement to any court. Giving both intellectual, as much as charming companionship, and often guiding politics, they were respected and even often feared members of court life. Ne change rien a votre caractre. Je vous salue Madame.

My dear Prince....please do not leave...Smiling, you are like a breath of fresh air in themusky and stalecorridors of time. I look foward to meeting you.

When I first came to RC, it was a bit of a challenge to figure out what belonged, as there were/ are so many varied discussions. I think its a good idea to have an OOC & IC section. I don't have any problems with any of the content so far but it might allow people to have the option of avoiding content that they don't want to spend their time slogging through. They would still have to scroll over the OOC section with one eye open to avoid seeing things like a talking animal or chicks in bikinis, but it wouldn't be mixed in with IC stuff, which seems to be part of the irritation. People will grumble about anything but we have to be extra tolerant here instead of feeling enabled to act in excess or as a cyberbully. It takes a lot of work to throw a bunch of strangers together and have them all work together, let alone have them all get along...

Just my two cents

Hey everyone, i would like to say first off that if I have posted anything that is offensive or not meant for the ning I am truly and honestly sorry, if I have upset anyone with a certain picture or adiscussion, I did not mean to, and if anyone is ever offended by anything of mine, please feel free to come and speak with me about it, im a pretty easy person, very simple, some would say stupid at times, but at the end of the day, wig and powder off, I am a human, and we all do make mistakes.

As for the OOC and the IC content, I think it is a wonderful idea to have them split into two sections, i think that would be a happy medium for everyone around! But then again, what would be considered appropriate content for the OOC section?

Bonjour mes amis!

I have little to add to this thread - I think the points raised above are all valid, and the discussion has been both lively and also constructive. On a very selfish note, I don't think I have posted anything that anyone may take umbrage with - either in my RL photographs, or my SL snaps.

HOWEVER it must be said that one thing is absent from this post: I see lots of apologies from people who may have caused offense, both old friends and new acquaintances, but what I don't see is any comment from people who have been so very very vocal in condemning images, posts and even entire characters in the past.

I am not one to be aggressive - I have been referred to as 'Mr Magnanimous' IRL and have been told I would make an excellent diplomat in-world - but I can't help but feel some of the people who have passed comment previously should stand up and let their voice be counted.

I don't mean to be accusatory or inflammatory, or indeed to cause any drama, but when there has been such an outpouring of apologies for any offense passed - and, to be honest, outpourings from the LAST people who have personally caused me any offense - and comments from the moderator of the site to confirm her stance on this, these are the people I would like to hear from.

With their snide, nasty comments, personal attacks and accusations, and general 'rain on the parade' contributions to the Ning, THEY have caused me personal offense. And I think some kind of explanation is due to us all.

In parenthesis, I would like to add a personal address to Monsieur le Prince, the fair Princesse d'Amblise and the other people who have thusfar commented on this post: PLEASE DON'T CHANGE! You are all wonderful characters - SL and RL, in my experience - and you enrich my experience of this site enormously.

I would like to return to my opening address, where I referred to you as 'mes amis' - because that is what I truly feel. This site is a community, and a thriving, ever-active one at that. Its content is slanted distinctly towards the eighteenth century of our RPs, but takes into account the modern world. The balance is, by and large, ideal. I, the same as Stormy, would hate to see it change.

Merci, mesdames et messieurs

Although I am new here I would like to say that I find Princesse d' Amblise, as a Courtesan character, and Touhiti, as a foreign and exotic Prince, are perfectly designed in their role which is not very easy to manage and maintain. Both give the site an interesting color note. We should not lose them.

As I have read, everybody knows now which line is not advisable to pass.

true my dear friend. I agree with you. we are a community that consists of many different personages. lets keep the soup spicy. tolerance is the key word i think. If you dont like something just ignore it instead of posting nasty comments in both worlds. this can be very annoying for the person who justtried to make others laugh and enjoy each other...

oh dear prince. I am very sorry. I surely did not intend to criticize YOU with this discussion. I was just slightly annoyed that your pictures on the network had received just low rankings (1 star). i find it pretty mean and intolerant. I was trying to think of a reason for it. and its apparently a lack of understanding and tolerance. i think this discussion will be a long term enrichment

Something that should be noted is that it's actually difficult to separate contenton any Ning site. The Ning sites are meant for sharing content and are technically geared to do that.

Right now, the General DiscussionCategory is the catch-all that includes OOC content. There is no practical way that I can restrict this category from appearing on the main page even if I wanted to. So, if I create an OOC Category, it will still appear on the main page mixed in with all the other discussions.

Likewise, I have restricted advertisements from Photos but in order to do so I have to manually check every photo and direct people to place them in a discussion in the Marketplace Category of Discussions. As you can imagine this is atedious and time consuming task so I'm not looking to add more restrictions on Photos.

Other NIng sites that I belong to use Groups to segregate content. The addition of content to a group is not visible on the main page (except briefly in the Latest Activity column). I find it becomes difficult to keep track of what is going on in the various groups and so they tend to die off.

Unless there is a strong community preference to segregate certain content, Iprefer that we leave things as they are. I feel any change would actually hinder communication while adding an additional administrative burden.

--
Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Smiling... dear Louise, you are a wonderful, intelligent,and sweet lady. Some of our greatest minds and personage were simple and easy going.

You make me want to cry, my dearest Nephew!!! Thank you so much, for these words and your support,as I was feeling very badly about this. I am trulysmiling now, from ear to ear.

Dear Quecay...the tears are flowing, but I am smiling. Thank you for your support and compliment. I truly appreciate it from my heart.

Well, I will roll with whatever is best for the group I love this site

Thank you, mydear Docteur....smiling, I will not change.

to be honest.

I personally I think it is very good as it is too. I support what has been done so far and will be active as a member in the future. I also expected this result. the vast majority of people loves the site as it is. so do I. I personally think you can clearly tell which photo is meant to be taken as ooc and which not. I am the kind of person that likes to create a place that appeals to as many people as possible - which is obviously impossible.

I also agree with the prince. I really thought some particular people would have the balls to stand up speak for themselves. that has not been the case so far. and it is not like its a bad thing to have a different opinion...

(I think I'm going to present myself as an even bigger dork, but whatevs)

There's a website that is heavily involved in their roleplay; it's based on geo-political affairs and such. As I'm a member, I noticed they do balance out the "professional" aspect (discussing treaties, creating their own countries' wiki page, even making their own newspapers) with an OOC section where members can post their RL pics of themselves and their travels. Not saying it's wrong to take the Royal Courts seriously, but I do think it's nice to sit back, have a breather and laugh. Just like the real court ladies and gentlemen, sometimes it's nice to get out of our elaborate accoutrements and enjoy the simpler things

After much thought, I too, vote to keep things as they are. All of us should feel comfortable enough here to express ourselves without censure or flaming. I have never seen anything here that 'offends' me. If anyone has a problem with a post, a person or an opinion expressed here then don't go there. Simple as that.