For newbs and veterans alike, being a courtier can be quite costly. Gowns, wigs, shoes, jewelry and all the accoutrements of living such a decadent style is a fortune. Ah! The woes of paying court. I know there are resellers for "regular" Second Life clothing but there aren't many for the Courts. So, I am planning on starting my own reselling service. Only transferable goods. I have some in my current inventory (am I the only one doing virtual spring cleaning?) but I know there is much more to do. Suggestions will be appreciated as well

(P.S.: I'm also thinking of having a service for the more esteemed clients. Perhaps a private viewing at their leisure...)

updated by @marie-adelina-de-la-ferriere: 06 Oct 2016 01:58:51PM

What a fantastic Idea! I too am sure that I could stand to clear out a few things as well.

Now, another element I would love to incorporate is the use of the roleplay trading. I believe right now Versailles is the only court that has implemented one, but those who participate there (if there are any other sites please let me know) I could possibly offer the option of buying your goods with Lindens or the domestic roleplay currency.

As a longtime SL merchant, I've participated in a number of long (and sometimes heated) discussions about SL resellers. The topic is a bit "delicate" to say the least and everyone has their own opinions which I certainly respect.

I know from experiencewhat a tough challenge it is being a SL merchant and how every sale helps so as a consumer I make it a point to support SL merchants by buying their products directly.

As a merchant I do have issues with people reselling items thatI have created, not so much the occassional yard sale that individuals hold but people that actually go into the resale business using my products. I can tell you that the general feeling in the merchant community is that if you want to go into business it should either be with your own original workor through official affiliate programs.

As the administrator of the roleplay system in the Duch de Coeur, I do manage goods that are sold for RP$ but these goods are contributed by the individual merchants who benefit from the marketing that this activity provides (and from the RP$). They are all sold as Copy/No Transfer so that others will not make a L$ profit from their contributions.

Anyway, that's my L$50 worth having studied the situation for quite a while. IMHO If you are serious aboutrunning a SL business it really is better to avoid resales altogether.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I think Tatiana has a point that many merchants who specialize in making items from our time period would not appreciate having their items resold. They are already cutting their potential market by specializing in goods targeted toward a small group of people. You would be hurting their sales and making a profit for yourself. Certainly something to think about. On the surface it sounds like a good idea but keep in mind thatmerchants are forced to make their items either copy or transfer. Since they can't make them copy they are forced to make them transfer...that doesn't mean they think it's okay for others to make a profit off their transferable items. I would give this more thought. Perhaps a swap now and theninstead of a regular business?

I'm wondering... if its frowned on to resell, what about a dress swap? Swap a day dress for another day dress? Maybe, to partake in the swap, participants have to register and pay a fee of 100 L.... the 100 L would be donated to the host of whichever historical sim volunteers to host the swap that month. We could set up a round-robin style ring and we could have a swap once a month?

So if say, the kingdom of the Lorax hosted the swap, all of the registration fees would go directly to the costs of that sim ie., land rental or whatever.

I think swaps are fine and so are auctions where the merchant/owner donates the item on an occasional basis. Good idea.

Maria, SL is a much smaller market than the real world and those who specialize in items for our time period are an even smaller group. Thus the potential for loss is greater. Just my two 'lindens'.

I perfectly understand and share the ethical point of view expressed by Tatiana, Duchesse de Provence, even if I am not a merchant myself.

Historically,in 18th century France, Noble Ladies and Gentlemen, when they wanted to clear their closet of their worn out or outdatedclothes, gave them to charity, or had their valets and chambermaidssell them to "regrattiers".

The "regrattiers" were people who bought second-hand 'anythings'( clothes, but also remnants of food, etc...) to resellthem with a little profit.Usually,regrattiers had no shops of their own, they went from house to house, or from shops to taverns,to buy and sell.

Their profession, already in those days,wasgreatly criticized for its lack of ethics ( See for instance Louis Sebastien Mercier in LeTableau de Paris), but from a historical RP point of of view,thiscould be considered as a valid activity, except for one thing: regrattiers werenever nobles, far from this! they were rather considered as the dregs of society.A Marquise would never even THINK of entering such an unaristocratic enterprise, nor buying anything from it.

Of course, by this reply, I only intended to shed alittle historical light on this profession, and in no way to judge it:SL gives usa wonderful freedom ( and therefore the responsibilities that go with it) , each one can decideon his or her own how to use it

If merchants had a choice heremost would probably not make things transferable. Unfortunately due to the way Sl is set up they have no choice. I agree Maria that in Rl for most things ( with the exception of Music copyrights) once we buy we buy. In SL though it is a different situation in my opinion.

I understand. I think it's more a thing where we have to weight "our rights" with what's "right". Yes everyone has a "right" to transfer transferable items..not sure i agree that makes it right to have a business where one makes money from reselling other people's creations. With that said, Marquesa has a 'right' to do it. But should she?

As I say, it's a bit of a controversial area so if someone is lookingto start a resale businessI think it's best that theyunderstand what they are getting into. To be clear, I'm not talking about swaps, charity eventsor the occasional yard sale.

I have seen a number of requests from SL Merchants to LL for a "no resale" option on items but so far nothing has been done about it and likely never will.

Yes, you do have the right to resell transfer items but there are implications to that.Everyone has to decide for themselves where they draw their own line. I'm interested in raising some of the issues so that people can be better informed when they make that decision.

@Myron - thanks for the quick history, it's fascinating!

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Actually I'm more afraid that someone will say "Oh look, I can get Tatiana's stuff for 75% off - why would I ever pay full price for it".

At a certain point, if enough of that happens I would be forced to close down mySL business.When I'm goneeveryone can just keep trade my virtualcreations and making a profit onthemuntil the end of time, after allthey wouldn'tever wear out.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Well I'm glad I've heard the perspectives from consumers and entrepreneurs. And I didn't really think the effects from the merchant's point of view (although I would NEVER sell anything 75% off - that's just wrong and cheapens the artist in my opinion). Lord de Vere, while your historical point makes sense the same could be said for any RP courtier who makes gowns, furniture, wigs etc. so as to earn their own income; people who took up such arts historically were never noble, and they would be seen at Court only when their clients wanted to introduce a commission. But I have solved that problem by creating a alt so as to separate my RP character from the entrepreneur.Let's turn attention back to the roleplay currency. Could those who know more about it explain how the RP currency banking system could be employed? (I wish I had the talent to create scripted goods; I could sell sugar and other spices from the Portuguese colonies!)

Personally I'm a merchant, a shopper, and above all a hoarder - RL and SL alike. So here're my thoughts on this subject. The major difference between SL and RL, as Skye said, is size. I refuse to believe that selling something by Chanel say, or YSL could cut into their RL profits because in RL these companies have millions of customers and make billions in profit. In SL we have thousands of customers at the most - and more like hundreds in the baroque community. So what Tar says is true - it could harm some people's businesses if not handled correctly, which is the last thing I think any of us would want to do to our friends.I have bought from yard sales before - I especially loved Stanze's as I could buy Nonna furniture I missed first time around. And for me, as a relative SL newb in the grand old world of the courts, that's the real pull of reselling - not getting something cheap per se, but getting something different and previously unavailable.Maybe the best thing for the Marquesa to do is to ask merchants directly if they would mind their goods being included for re-sale. As we said, it's a small community so it's not unfeasible. Some may feel more comfortable being excluded. I think I would try to look upon it as great advertising of my work. And if it was offering something old but different I'd definitely shop there.

And I do agree with you. But this was only something that I was thinking of doing, nothing concrete. Again, I thank you and many others who have shared their thoughts on this issue.

Back to the virtual currency system (trying my best to end this debate - I DEPLORE conflict!). I know Versailles is doing it - and Coeur, which I didn't know until this morning. Are there any others? How exactly is it implemented? Better question is how nobles earn income through the virtual currency? Taking a chapter out of history, French courtiers could not go into any direct business like mining, farming etc. (the French appear to be the only exception - there are many cases of, at least, Portuguese nobles going into entrepreneurship) but how do the Versailles courtiers earn money through the currency system?

A RP Economyis indeed fascinating subject. I might suggest that you start a new thread where you can learn more about virtual currency systems etc. I have a number of links I can provide you with regard to the Duch de Coeur implementation and I'm sure Versailles can do the same.


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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Will do!

La Contessa makes a very interesting point (as well as M. de Dampierre). What if the reselling was of only former collections purchased directly from the merchant themselves and resold in an almost art exhibition display? (Or, does that entirely defeat the purpose...)

What you are talking about here is an affiliate program. To make it official you would work out the terms of this business arrangementso that bothyou (the vendor)and the merchant (who I assume is the creator) were satisfied. On first glance, it may seem like a subtlething but it makes a world of difference because both parties are in agreement and would hopefully benefit.

Asking a creator for permission to resell their products which were not purchased directlymay be astep in the right direction. I don't know how many people would think it's a good deal to to lose 100% of their profit for the sake of maybe getting some advertising but at least they can make their own decision.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I see I see. I think I know what I'm going to do...No reselling, but something a little more "chic", if I do say so myself.

Now I could be very wrong - and, if someone has the correct historical information, please let me know! - but from what I've observed is that salons of the French elite were also opportune for ateliers, furniture-makers etc. to present their work; women of Society would commission gowns or have furniture made and they could "show it off" at the salons. Now, could - with a very big 'C' - it be possible to have some work commissioned by a certain artist and have it showcased at an event presented as a salon?

LOL Stormy!! So you're one of the poor new merchants I probably bored to tears with my thoughts on reselling. I had forgotten that )

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

On the other hand *coming back to my point of permissions on a product* Who cares? Without biting the tail too long; this is one of those things a merchant should think about before opening a shop.

Yes, I agree that merchants should think about this before opening a shop, I know I did. But I do pity the poor souls that are overwhelmed with becoming a SL merchant and haven't thought to include that in theirbusiness plan.

Here's what I think about setting permissions on items that I sell. Most of my items (every thing except my houses and some garden items) are No Copy/Transfer. This allows me to keep the price lower than if they were Copy. My understanding is that Copy/No Transfer items for things like furniture are3 to 5times the price of items that are No Copy/Transfer. I figure that this is a good deal both for myself and for my customers.

I know that I can trick an item into being No Copy/No Transfer but I think all that I will accomplish is alienating my customers as theyreally don't expect No Copy/No Transfer items.

So withmy strategy, I'm betting the farm on the fact thata resale business is not a viable one. Again, let me state I'm not talking about individuals that have yard sales or people that pass something on to friends on occassion. I'm talking about people who are consistently making a good profit from selling 2nd hand goods. So far this has proven to be the case and I'm guessing it will continue to be that way because that's just how SL works.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site