Good morning.

I am sad to report, that the French area in Antiquity has been removed by the creator for fears Antiquity did not do enough to protect his items from copybot. We were made aware of some items being stolen, some textures from the creator and a coin HUD Antiquity had developed through an independent scripter. At that moment, the admins present and the creator all reported the suspected AV to LL. As we believed that was the proper way to deal with this issue.

Two years later, the AV is still roaming around, and LL has done nothing. This brings up a very important issue for all of us. I know this topic has been discussed at length, but I would like to touch on it again and ask for a community discussion on how we work as a group to deal with suspected thieves.

As owners of the estate, we filed an abuse report with LL. This being the first step. But if LL does nothing, what are we left to do? One suggestion was to ban the AV and its alts. I see the rational for doing it, but does it really have any effect on the theft? One can ban suspected av and alts, but with the ability to create a new AV at a whim, is it really effective? Revealing AV identities and exposing ALTs is against the LL TOS. Do we ban new avatars? Would a copyboter use his main account to steal items? Do we need to work on an estate level to meet, review evidence and take action together as a group?

How, as creators and estate owners, do we fight this? Just as the creator is worried, it is not like I dont have skin in this game. I as well, have a few things that could be stole and probably already have been stolen.

Any person that wants to steal stuff, can. Copybots have been a problem since I first arrived in SL. And copybots are in all grids. Content is taken from online websites, stolen and sold as their own.

I am at a total loss as to what to do to effectively fight a suspected copyboter. Besides closing our estates off, or removing our items from marketplace, how do we fight to stop it.

We have top end designers in our period communities. Any suggestions to combat this, is important to everyone. Any input or suggestions would be really appreciated as I am at a loss.

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His Royal Highness Jacon Cortes de Bexar Prince of Antiquity, Duke of Cumberland, Duque de Bexar, Duc de la Valliere, Marchese di MSB
updated by @jacon-cortes-de-bexar: 06 Oct 2016 06:35:54AM

A subject near & dear to my heart.

As any creator using the internet soon learns, you're going to have to deal with content theft. It's inevitable and it's gut wrenching. Every individual has to decide how much joy they'll allow the thief to take away from their creative process and how much time & energy they're willing to spend in response.

I'm actually surprised that, in this case, the creator held Antiquity (somewhat?) responsible for protecting his/her items from copybot. I believe that it's the creators responsibility and they (fortunately) have most of the control over the situation.

Honestly, the best thing a creator can do is to file a DMCA.

You can see some of the results over at SLU DMCA Tracking .

Make sure that you have working copies of your work and anything else necessary to prove that the item in question is yours.

If you need advice the SLU Intellectual Property Issues forumis a good place to go. They also "name & shame" over there which may help the community at large.

As far as I know, filing AR's really aren't that effective. If you want LL to even consider the situation you have to have multiple filings against the same avi and in cases of intellectual property LL is just going to reiterate that the creator must file a DMCA for action to be taken.

As estate owners, Skye & I do ban suspected copybotters from the Duch de Coeur. Yes, we know we're playing whack-a-mole but at least we're being proactive. Fortunately we pretty much see eye-to-eye on these situations so our reviews don't take very long. Our land our rules.

I also ban people from this site for suspected copyboting . I do my best to juggle fairness with not being taken advantage of and my conscience is clear on the decisions I've made. Again, my site my rules.

I hope this gives others some food for thought. Looking forward to hearing other opinions!

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I am so sorry to hear that ! I do hate people who steal from others, I see that every time I search for male skins on the marketplace, someone with an ever changing name or account sells skins of famous creators for 99 or 199 ls ...

Some people steal textures or objects, I think this is an horrible thing to do. People who create those pieces should be protected. Linden Labs should do something against those programs or viewers that allow people to copybot items, textures and everything.

I am sorry to hear the French estate is gone, it was such a beautiful place. I bought some furniture there that I have in my Scottish estate, I guess I should close it to the public to avoid further theft. I always kept it open for people to see and visit.

Other than that I would take the suggestion of Tatiana and file a report. People who steal the hard work of others should be stopped.

I hope you will still open Buckingham Jacon. Maybe it has to be done by invitation only. I feel this is sad as historical place deserve to be seen, but if there is no other way.

I hope the historical sl world will survive this and become even bigger.

Everyone take great care ... The Decades Festival showed there is some interest for history in SL ...

There is no solution because these people will just create a new Avatar and SL either can't or won't stop it. There are whole web-sites where people can upload and sell or give away stolen items. It's mind-boggling. I will ban people just because I suspect them. Like Tat said our land our rules...

I an not even sure the LL take this sort of problem seriously, or even do anything. Going on my recent experience with reporting griefers. LL only seem to respond to problems with the actual regions, of which they work fast to resolve and let people know of the result, But any Griefing report goes unanswered.

I'm very disappointed that anyone would blame a sim owner (someone who has effectively subsidized the creator's pleasure by providing space to create and show off his creations), for the actions of some selfish git who can create new and unsuspected alts in endless numbers whenever he or she pleases.

The only way to prevent all possible copybotting is to move to a private little grid and bar everyone who isn't a personal friend - potentially a very lonely way to experience virtual worlds. (Well, assuming that no competent hacker has enough interest in the person's creative outbursts to bother finding a way in.) Barring that, as Tatiana has pointed out, the creator is the only person who can follow up with any real hope of success on breach of copyright issues, via the DMCA process.

We play whack-a-mole a good deal in Antiquity, mostly in connection with griefers. We would need a much larger admin team, with much more time, to deal with all possible copybotting avs as well - and we'd all need telepathic powers, too. "Innocent until proven guilty" is still a key principle, and if all our actions are driven by suspicion, all we'll manage to do is suck all the joy out of our virtual existences.

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Antiquity Hedgewitch

I can't be happier and agree more with most your comments. As you might know I am the actual Creator of the French Kingdom of Antiquity and I see there is a misunderstanding I would like to clear... I didn't say I held Antiquity or Jacon or who ever (but the copybot) responsible for the act of copy (I understand that truely). I said in my notecard (and you don't have this part) was :

"I have been concerned about a certain ''copyboter'' who is apparently moving freely around Antiquity. I did also discovered that, some of my creation were already been copyboted. I already informed Jacon about the situation and the thief itself. However,
it appears that this person was not even banned from Antiquity's land but even worse,
I have learned today that this very 'thief/copybot was now going to establish himself freely in Clagny, and was about to create his own roleplay with all his ALTs. I imagine you can understand my frustration.

Unfortunately, I cannot accept further such situation. I do not wish my builds to be used/ serve by/for this copybot/thief.

And sadly i had no other choice but to remove my buildings from Antiquity.

I really wish i did not have to go that far to protect my intellectual property."

Should you like long story I would resume : this person have been a situation in the French Kingdom for almost 2 years and each time was identified with proofs given to Antiquity's owner. Each time a BAN was requested and nothing happened : wait and see... or like Tiamat like to say : "Innocent until proven guilty". He already had rent several times in Clagny and I had to suffer from it. Now having him establish a court RPhis ultimate goal toClagny is far to much for me (also it is weird a court was accepted so fast as Antiquity admins are not very into it usually....). Yes this is somewhat childish but this is to me disrespect.

I wish Jacon and the Antiquity's admins will learn from your answers and recommandations.

yes Louis...we have learned from this...and there is no hard feelings. These are your items...and you do as you like. The admins are looking at how to better address something like this. You did give a list of alts you suspected of being a copyboter, and we will be reaching out to other estates. These alts dont only walk around freely here...but in other courts as you well know. This was one area I hope that estate owners can better collaborate with. Share lists of known copyboters. Intellectual property theft is a big issue. I do have a bit of intellectual property out there myself and do have skin in the game. This has been an issue from day one that I came into SL

Our protocols on how to deal with this will be reviewed and adjusted. We had to do that with Bill. We been fighting Bill for over 6 years in Antiquity. There have been times his alts have moved around and we were aware of it. We also learned that blanket banning on suspected alts with no proof its Bill other then a suspicion, and we have been wrong and had to lift the ban on an innocent person.

With that said, no hard feelings louis..and good luck on your current project.

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His Royal Highness Jacon Cortes de Bexar Prince of Antiquity, Duke of Cumberland, Duque de Bexar, Duc de la Valliere, Marchese di MSB

The only thing I am sad about, is that your beautiful builds are gone frome SL ... I hope they will be back someday !! Court is a great experience and I enjoy rp, but if you need to be all the time suspicious of people who come and want to join that becomes more of a burden than a pleasure.

I am very sorry to hear of the crime, and the Loss of the French area in Antiquity. It was truely a Gem, a Asset, and a Marvel. A Loss to SL to no longer have it.

Thank you for your kind words my friend. I usually do not publish on this blog anymore, but in view of the recent events, I simply cannot help myself. Because content theft has pushed me to withdraw from Second Life and to move on with other projects in RL.

I myself have grown extremely tired of reiterating the need to raise awareness on this forum and other places in SL. I for one believe that part of the reason why this "copybot business" works so well in this community and other places, is not because customers ignore the fact that the textures or items were stolen, but in many situations customers simply do not care anymore. Some sim owners even seem to accept these practices knowingly. I have adressed this issue with a couple of sim owners on whose lands I had found stolen material in the past. In response to my request, I was banished from these regions. A lot of friends have experienced the same issue. So this not just a legal issue, but also a question of morals. Do we stand up against the people who commit these acts of theft, or do we as content creators and members of this community rather face defeat.

From a legal point of view, I can say that DMCA may have surely facilitated the process of removing suspected material from the grid. Linden Lab as an american enterprise is obliged to respect these laws. Yet, DMCA reports do not keep people from copybotting. Even if a DMCA report may prove successful and even if the relevant material is eventually removed from SL, the said material will still be located on a server on any possible country in the world - each of which (except for member states of the European Union) have adopted their own legislation on intellectual property, forcing content creators to engage a procedure in the country of residence of the copyright infringer (if they can actually locate that person).

So this DOES leave sim owners AND customers with a great deal of responsability in the whole issue. Only if this business is no longer accepted by a larger part of the community and only if this issue is adressed as it should be, will there be any possible change. We all have a share in this! Time for action!

Two of our administrators in Antiquity have taken on the responsibility of helping Jacon to ban bots as they are named to us or identified by us. We are actually going so far as to ban first, rather than double-checking suspicions. If anyone is banned inappropriately in the process, they will have to apply to our administrative team. It's contrary to the common law principle we have tried to follow - innocent until proven guilty - but the situation really does seem to warrant the stricter standard.

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Antiquity Hedgewitch

This really sounds like a step into the right direction! However, as you know very few sim owners have adopted such a policy on their servers. I think a lot of cpontent creators wish more sim owners would follow your (and Tatiana's and Skye's) example, Madame.

There are a number ofhistoricalestates working together now. I won't mention them here as I think it's up to the individuals to identify themselves if they so choose.

By working together, I mean that we're sharing information and it's up to the individual estates to take action as they see fit.

It's not a perfect solution but at least it's proactive and, as you say, a step in the right direction.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

This is a start, but at the moment it just seems to be this era, maybe we should extent to other Historic Estates.

If the Estates go to LL enmass they will have to start taking this problem seriously.

Pity there is not a script that changes the textures to "Stolen from creator" wenever somones build is copyed with out initial payment.

Has anyone experienced this on other grids? ie Kitely or home standalones? I would like to open up my home standalone or build in Kitely but does this have most people weary of being apart of or contributing to new communities on other grids as well as SL? I have not been very active the last few years in SL communities (there never seems to be anyone around when I log in) so I have spent most time building on my private sim. I would like to start to connect more with others on other grids and possibly share or sell my mesh creations but is it worth the trouble? Do these cobybotters steal mesh items also? Or mainly textures? TIA

It is known there was copy stuff in Sunlight Grid, but as far as I know I did not encounter other places like that... Still in Kitely I did visit many sims and yet have found nothing I can notice. Also it seams more creators from SL are coming around Kitely which is great like Twice Baked did this week. The good think if you wish to sell stuff in Open Grid is Kitely market can be exportable so you can use your stuff on any Grid (but SL as it is a close Grid) and there is no upload fees or any cost at all 100% free and even free sandbox sim to work on. For the what can be copybot I've seen texture, sculpt and scripts so I presume everything can be copybot. (like the full Pavilion of Tatiana)

Link to Kitely Market info: https://kitely.atlassian.net/wiki/display/doc/Kitely+Market

Everything, including mesh, can be copied.

Please don't letthat stop you for doing what you love to do. See my comment here about continuing on after content theft

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Thanks Tatiana! Im sorry for your theft issue. But you are right. I'm not going to stop building because of jerks lol. Its a digital age and unfortunately people are going to find a way to electronically steal stuff I would like to offset the expense of a new community by selling some stuff but I'm mainly building for the experience and to share what I have made. ...The next few years will be mind boggling when it comes to VR I have no idea what to expect...I'm just building what I can in hopes it will be transferable to the next platform...whatever that may be haha

You go girl!!

I agree, the next few years will be mind boggling.

My guess is that textures & mesh will always transfer. Then there's experience, knowledge & the passion to create that will never go out of style

Best wishes in all your ventures!

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I have to agree with you and Tatiana about this. Yes, its a horrible thing to have your things stolen. But we cannot allow this type of action to stifle the creative ideas flowing around in our heads. Yes, they can steal it. Yes they can use it. But as Tatiana, who put it best mentioned, we are a small community. Even in the far flung world of outer grids, theft can be uncovered. Anyone that uses stolen goods, is left with the only option. Enjoy it by your self or with others that allow theft. Having this over their heads, they know, they cannot invite anyone honest to their places.

So, I join with both of you all, in stating, I will not allow thieves to ruin my SL experience. I will keep creating, keep putting my things out for people that enjoy them and keep engaging with the historical community here.

I refuse to live behind a wall out of fear. This is something, that I think is my own way of stating, they have not won. Removing my items from view, from sale or shutting out people from my estate, gives in to the fear. I may loose things, but as stated before, my love of creating and sharing far out weighs any fears I may have.

Good luck to you both, and to all creators, who work so hard to make SL a place we can all enjoy.

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His Royal Highness Jacon Cortes de Bexar Prince of Antiquity, Duke of Cumberland, Duque de Bexar, Duc de la Valliere, Marchese di MSB