As everyone knows, I usually stay far away from discussions like this just because I don't feel I have the time or the energy to moderate them correctly.

I'm making an exception in this case, since I'm obviously going to be knee deep in the details.

As most of you know I am the owner of Tatiana's Tea Room (TTR). I create all the products sold from this store; none of them have been sold with full permissions and I have never given anyone permission to use my products on any grid other than Second Life.

I have recently received photographic evidence that at least seven of my products have been copybotted and imported to the Sunlight-Grid.

According to an object inspection, this was done by Marie Antoinette deBourbon, Group=Chateau de Versailles, Region=Versailles (510, 508, 22), Parcel=Parc du Chateau.

The list of stolen content (with links to original sales on the Second Life Marketplace) include:

TTR-The French Pavilion
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/TTR-The-French-Pavilion/2734143

TTR-Fontainebleau Fireplace-Boudoir de la reine
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/TTR-Fontainebleau-Fireplace-Boudoir-de-la-reine/1497817

TTR-Queen's Mantel Clock
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/TTR-Queens-Mantel-Clock/643190

TTR-Compiegne-Cherub Mirror
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/TTR-Compiegne-Cherub-Mirror/643194

TTR-Louis XVI Salon Curtains
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/TTR-Louis-XVI-Salon-Curtains/3238459

TTR Antiques-Jardin Francais-Planter w Flowers-08 (Copy)
only available inworld

TTR-Parterre de broderie-04 Green Grass
only available inworld

There is also a copy of Jimpsky Rhode's "lantern_square hall" which I do not sell but is displayed at my inworld location.

The last picture confirms that all this was not just transferred but copybotted as they left in my vendor box for the Pavilion as well as my Tatiana's Tea Room-Information Giver 2013 complete with my logo on it. See bottom left-hand corner.

Go figure.

I'm in contact with the Sunlight-Grid Administrators and I'll keep you updated on the situation. In the meantime I think it's more than justified to "Name & Shame" here.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

updated by @tatiana-dokuchic: 07 Apr 2019 04:08:42AM

I don't understand people like this, I just don't. Creators work hard and many of them depend on sales to supplement their RL work or use SL AS their RL work. People who steal and sell are just pond scum, period. Get some self esteem and do your own work!!!!!

Kudos to the Sunlight-Grid administrative staff.

I couldn't have asked for better help in sorting through this situation!

What a pleasant & welcome surprise!!

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I am so glad to hear that Sunlight Grid was so helpful. Nobody deserves to be robbed. You have 110% of my support in anyway.

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His Royal Highness Jacon Cortes de Bexar Prince of Antiquity, Duke of Cumberland, Duque de Bexar, Duc de la Valliere, Marchese di MSB

Good idea. Many of our most creative minds are frustrated and disillusioned, and naming-and-shaming is certainly deserved by those who we know are content thieves.

If Sunlight Grid is able and willing to take effective action, perhaps we should communicate that fact to Linden Labs, along with a description of the effective action that has been taken.

Perhaps we should also ask the Lindens what value we are really receiving for our money in Second Life when obviously they are NOT doing everything possible to look after the legitimate interests of their clients. They may need to have pointed out that there will be less and less motivation for any of us to move to SL2, when we already have good reason to believe that our creative people will not be appropriately supported by the same Linden Labs leadership, and that we also have less motivation to stay in SL1 when we have evidence that our creators are being cared for more appropriately elsewhere.

--
Antiquity Hedgewitch

Thanks Jacon! You have mine as well.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

One "advantage" Sunlight has over LL is that (right now anyway)it's a small operation.

Managing content theft is complicated & time consuming and the effort probably grows exponentially with grid size.

I have a fair amount of sympathy for administrators on any gridtrying to grapple with it. It's hard to tell who the injured party really is.

That being said, Itoo wish LL would figure out a better way to deal with it.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Took a visit to the Sunlight grid yesterday, specifically my French Pavilion which had all the content of my inworld display model (tea set, tables, chairs etc.) so about twice as much as I had originally listed.

Kind of made me sick standing there in the middle of all my hard work.

FYI, here's a look at the Chateau de Versailles group:

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Here's one screenshot of the Facebook page for Chateau de Versailles in Sunlight-Grid. This group has since disappeared from Facebook.

The profile link for Marie-Antoinette de France right here on Royal Courts.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Thank you for your insights, Mercury.

I hesitated to post the group list because I really don't want to imply that belonging to a group means you're somehow guilty.

As you say, most group members are innocent and people belong to groups for a wide variety of reasons.

I didn't get much of a chance to review the Chateau itself. I was with an administrator and concentrating on content that I could verify as mine. There was a lot of it so it took some time.

I would strongly suggest that anyone that has built the Chateau de Versaillesincluding the Hall of Mirrors go and take a look themselves.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

What a shame to steal the creations of someone else, I can't say it enough !!

I bought this pavillion a year or so ago and it is a delighful build, I can't believe someone would copybot it.

I think if you don't create your own stuff, you buy it ... stealing is really an awful thing.

It is good to know that Sunlight grid was so helpful with removing your content and banning the avatar. All of us who travel in other grids...keep your eyes out for objects you may recognize and know the creator. Working together is our only true way to combat this as LL is not much help. Its so sad, we have to result to banning alts, for theft. It has taken creators years to fine tune their craft, to have it stolen in 2 mins....is just down right depressing.

as I always tell myself....Karma is a bitch...and this thief will get his own taste of it some day.

scuse da bad language..:P

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His Royal Highness Jacon Cortes de Bexar Prince of Antiquity, Duke of Cumberland, Duque de Bexar, Duc de la Valliere, Marchese di MSB

The ombline Versailles was the same as Louis Ren douard de Rohan (AV SL : bourbonestateproject) in SL. Was ruled by the previously named Marie-Antoinette de France and pictures of it can be found on Ning on her album:

Marie-Antoinette de France's Photos ( http://royalcourts.ning.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?screenName=381u07nyciihg )

On this sim you could also find in that time the apparition of Princesse Catherina Dashkova "THE SOUS" HUD (or real name Antiquity Treasury HUD). Then used by her Jeanne Saint Remy de Valois in "Petit Bourg".

Sadly I did not took pictures of it.

I am so sorry to hear this has happened to you, Tatiana. I have seen this happen to many people around me, and I can understand your fury. I think a lot of people do not realize that you put a LOT of (real!) time into your creations. I think this has caused a lot of people, including myself, to be reluctant with making stuff public and putting in a lot of effort in building something publicly, if someone will so easily 'take' it and use it as their own. We only just recently saw this happen in Antiquity.

For in world theft I would recommend to file a DMCA, it is the only way to go and it has been proven to be a working method if done right. But there isn't a whole lot they can do. If I know correctly, the whole copybot mechanism exists due to Linden Lab's own doing in the early years of SL. So, I am very hopeful that SL2 (if that will ever catch on), will be better in the protection of intellectual property.

I think that the people who are so actively involved with the theft of intellectual property within our community (it has happened a lot), have also tarnished it for a great deal. I mean.. There is so very little trust left now.

Anyway,

I hope all will work out well for you, Tatiana.

Best,

ML

Hi Tatiana

This is a doozy. This person has been doing this a long time and seems to think nothing of it. Personally, I find it insulting that they assume we swallow it.Very weird. I see Pamela Galli only allows avs with payment details onto her sim as thieves are less likely to give personal details to LL. If it's any consolation, I don't think there is any way a copy could be mistaken for your work. It is exceptional.

Jane.

Thanks, Jane!

On the bright side, this time we didn't just "swallow it" and I think we've learned a bit more aboutworking together as a communityto help alleviate these types of situations.

My heart goes out to Pamela Galli, a wonderful person & creator whoseSL income supports herself & her family. She is facing continual theft that impacts that income. I can see why she only allows AVs with payment information onto her region. I wouldseriously consider doing the same if my regions were only about the retail aspect but I really enjoy sharing the land and like to think it might inspire a brand-new AV (who doesn't yethave payment information) to get involved with the historical communities.

In other words, I like the community aspect too much to want to lock down my land anymore than I have to and I'm not about to let unscrupulous people change that.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

LOL Jacon, "Karma is a bitch" is one of my favourite sayings mostly because we actually have a wonderful Sheltie named Karma and yes, she is female

On a more serious note, I agree that working together goes a long way to solving the problem. They can rip us off but now they know they'll eventually be found out.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Thanks, MarieLouise

I made my decision a long time ago (back in the days of TheSims2 - was that really 10 years ago!) that I wasn't going to let thieves stop me from creating & sharing those creations. Not that it doesn't make me sick every time I come across another incident. I agree that filing a DMCA is a great way to go in SL and will have to figure out the rules of other grids as necessary.

One of the worst things is "there is so very little trust left now" and, as you say, "this has caused a lot of people, including myself, to be reluctant with making stuff public".

How do you keep a community healthy & vibrant with all the suspicion?

It's sad because I would guess that only about 5% of the actual population are to blame. The usual pattern isone or twoindividuals with a whole lot of alts.

This is the question Jacon is tackling in Theft in SL.

This case has given us (both estate managers & community members)some practical experience on working together & I think we can build from there.

Do you have any suggestions? Anything that would make you feel safer sharing your wonderful new version of the Chateau de Versailles for example?

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I too hope that creators don't get discouraged. It's a shame that so much talent is potentially lost to us because of the actions of a few.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Thanks so much for your support, Craon!

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

I have been away from NING for a couple of weeks....this is a great discussion of a subject that affects creators and 'consumers' alike. When good creators stop making things because they grow understandably weary (and furious) when seeing their work stolen everyone suffers. In RL looting is probably one of the three most offensive crimes; in VR, content theft and copybotting are on a par. Shame and tell often works better than trying to get the management of a grid involved and this discussion illustrates that so nicely.