Maintaining a historical RP group is challenging (really challenging, really-really challenging) so extending that group to interact with others in our historical community isn't an easy endeavour.  On the bright side, there's a lot of goodwill that's been built up over the years between communities like Antiquity, the Duché de Coeur (DC) , and Rocca Sorrentina (RS).  Mangers of these estates have always looked for practical ways to support & interact with one-another, the weekly coffee hour at RS being a great example.

Recently, spurred by the use of the active roleplay systems ACS and G&S, we began discussing ways to strengthen our connections.  For background information see:

Managing a Historical RP Economy

Historical RP/Sim : How to get new people and retain existing

Historical RP: Exploring Different Types of Roleplay

On May 11, 2019 a few of us got together to chat about the roleplay systems, ACS used by Antiquity , and G&S used by DC, the Banco Rezzonico  and, to some extent, RS. We are exploring the possibility that these systems can help strengthen our connections and failing that, what other things can we do to increase our interactions.

The transcript from our chat is long and a bit winding so I thought I would start this discussion to record some of the high points, continue on with the conversation and include others that were not present at the time. 

I will do my best to summarize in the next post with the hope that my recollection will be corrected & enhanced by the other participants

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Please note that this is my own summary and analysis which obviously has the potential to be totally different from other participants.  I expect this to be corrected and interpreted by everyone that has something to say about it

Trade

On the surface, trade has always seemed to be a relatively easy means of connecting groups together.  Set up a market and invite other groups to buy & sell goods.  Easy peasy.  In reality things get complicated.

• We explored how tightly goods from ACS & G&S could be integrated.  Given the fact that G&S is a closed system it looks like a totally automated integration won't be possible.  Dang!  I still have hopes that integration via human intervention can be accomplished and so I'll keep exploring that option.
• Another point about trade is one that tends to plague every manager running an active roleplay system.  There are always more producers than consumers.  It's hard to sell your own goods within your own group let alone branch out to other groups.  This generated a lot of discussion with Abbondio making the point that you can't force people to do anything (i.e. rely on Needs) you have to have a strategy that encourages people to consume (i.e. rely on Wants).  Why do people consume; to benefit themselves and, to a lesser extent, the RP.

Next Steps

Since automated integration is out, I'll be looking at ways to reconcile working with both ACS & G&S.  As a first step I am looking forward to becoming a user of ACS and will make the ACS Experience available to all of the Queen's Hamlet regions in DC.  I believe that Abbondio is also going to explore ACS and so those of us "outsiders" can work together with the management of Antiquity, Jacon, Louis, etc. on connectivity strategies.

Exciting times for sure!

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Thank you Tatiana for starting the threed and the very sharp summary

I would like to add that working on Needs is impossible on the G&S side because their HUD is not mendatory and only have Energy stats. As ACS require Antiquity HUD to work, our HUD have many needs to fill and bring in a levelling system to progress on.

Also, it is indeed good to work with wants as... well if people want something they will get it... But Antiquity HUD and then [ACS] revamp was done with Achievement in mind. More in a GAME thinking then only Role Play.

What I mean by achievement is being rewarded for your action. Getting something for what you do. Have a goal and be proud of your work. Those are things very hard to achieve for a community if using many different system and most being fictionnal RP (I mean RP trading "fake" money or things like that). But if everything is automated, it is fair for everyone and everyone can set their own goal.

But sorry I'm getting out of the subject  

As for next step : I would really like to see everyone using the same system but it may be just a dream. However, it is possible to make an ACS version of a G&S product for exchange, sadly can't fully do the ACS to G&S conversion. Then the easiest way would be to have specific product to grow to exchance in each system.

You could create artificial needs by setting challenges again. I seem to recall the challenges and trophies were successful in getting people to try new skills. It got me into blacksmithing and fishing, or one!

There's also bragging rights. If you manage to make something from scratch that was very difficult, we could take a picture and share it to the group, with a challenge for someone else to top it.

Like Louis Francis de Beauharnois said, achievements can be a motivation.

Just a bit of extemporaneous brainstorming.

I would really like to see everyone using the same system but it may be just a dream.

I agree with you that it's unlikely, Louis, but that's ok.  Some people may choose to use both and I believe that everyone will benefit in some way from the liaison between the groups regardless of the system(s) used.

You could create artificial needs by setting challenges again

I'm glad that you enjoyed the challenges, Satoharu!  For those of you that haven't tried them yet, you can find them listed at QH Challenges. I had left many of them at the Silver level as I was waiting for further G&S developments before continuing.  I will have to go back and see what can be added. 

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

updated by @tatiana-dokuchic: 13 May 2019 04:49:45AM

Spot on, Tatiana.

About the needs/wants point I dropped:
One can say many things about G&S, and is less mandatory in many things as you will get everything done with or without hud etc. But if you want better results you can use better tools and need to keep up high energy levels. It's the perfect example of wanting something over needing it.
Louis, I'm sorry to sound like a pessimist in this, as I am not, but: No matter how many needs you put into the hud, you still need people to want to do it and spend their time on it. For instance my needs for your hud are far less than you'd hope for any participant, because I simply am not that competitive (anymore) and just want to enjoy myself. First thing I'll do with that hud is testing that sobriety and getting as drunk as possible! :p

I think it's safe to say that we established the impossibilities of conversion. Users that lean to one or the other system, will perhaps dabble with the other for the sake of rp or community. I just hope that the ACS will remain as accessible in 'light use' as G&S is. For I cannot see myself using G&S ánd ACS simultaneously.

As said, I will support anything that is well thought through to enhance rp. It absolutely has a chance if you stick to period related stuff. But I fear you are putting too much on G&S. Let ACS be its own system, and accept that G&S is well established after a decade and progression. We, the foreigners/outsiders, that are a part of the 18th century community that -want- to dabble, will dabble

Challenges, quests and other ploys that are developed with use of a system, and not enclosed within - are indeed interesting. I think we have proven lately that with a bit of imagination and teamwork we can do this. I'm pretty sure that we'll continue doing this in future.

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Abbondio Rezzonico
Banker, Merchant & Vintner
@ Rocca Sorrentina

First thing I'll do with that hud is testing that sobriety and getting as drunk as possible! :p

First thing I'm going to do is explore the possibility of growing my own herb garden so that I can become an apothecary/healer.  Make sure you come and see me for a restorative when you wake up with that hangover, Abbondio!

I think we have proven lately that with a bit of imagination and teamwork we can do this. I'm pretty sure that we'll continue doing this in future.

I agree!  Imagination and teamwork are precious assets that can move mountains especially when combined.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

Bravo, ACS team! I picked up my HUD yesterday and I'm very excited with what I've seen so far.  Congratulations on an excellent beginning.

I will continue discussing over at the Antiquity site in Making Connections.

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Proprietress of Tatiana's Tea Room ~ Owner of the Provence Coeur Estate ~ Webmistress of this site

We will have to have a tea-party soon, with a good deal of ACS brandy in the cups, or perhaps a whist-party, where brandy can be consumed with more honesty by the bystanders. I will discuss it with Lady Conyngham, whose Bath drawing-room would be suitable for the purpose (her breakables are both less plentiful and less valuable than those of Lord Rochfort next door, and I have it on excellent authority that her Canalettos are mere inexpensive copies of some in the Palace.)

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Antiquity Hedgewitch

I have to say I'm floored by the level of activity that's been generated by the [AES] (formerly ACS). It's ages since I've seen so many dots on the map of Antiquity! People really seem to be responding to the opportunities to be makers and interact as consumers.

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Antiquity Hedgewitch

I am back after quite awhile. I know that some were using a system just when I had to leave (AES as it looks like it stands now) but being on a rental homestead, I'm curious: Is AES going to be the main draw in terms of gatherings? Or are people interested in non-system roleplay/storylines?

I got the hud, it looks interesting and challenging.

Just wondering whether the hours I put into my estate and the weekly tier is going to be worth it to me, in the long run, if things are headed more into the system than generic RP.

Doesn't matter to me if I need to rethink. I'd just rather do it before I sink too much cash into my present situation

My impression was that AES serves as stimulus to general rp. It is the activity that generates some in-sim activity and economy around which story rp would grow. That was my take on it.   Unlike G&S which seems to be more about the activities and products themselves.

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Una (Unalunaqat Resident)
Madame D'Qat
Ferme sur Mer (Sea View Farm), Queen's Hamlet
Villa Toscana,LL, Rocca Sorrentina

I'm also finding that AES is a means to draw people in which is fabulous.  

Unfortunately there's also a lot of associated text (so-and-so took a glass of x or a plate of y) amidst what would have been conversation/RP. I find, at times, it makes it more difficult to follow conversation - - is there a way to mute that?

There's also the matter of not being able to use it on my own land, which I completely understand. I suppose, in the long run, that will work for me, really. I love changing my land up from time to time as a personal challenge to see where my creativity can take me

Una is totally right, AES serves to add realism and provides activity and economy around which people can RP instead of pretending them like the old fashion way. 

As in everything, SL is vast, and AES will not be a fit for everyone, so don't worry there will always be people looking for something different and for sure if there was people doing traditionnal RP for years there should still be. Though it's not everyone who is willing to follow AES progression to create their Role.

For the interactive text I can clarify it out, it is intentionnal for 3 reasons

• Not everyone enjoy to describe what they do, so it kind of allow it to be automated.
• It allow to know who took what, which is handy in many situations.
• It is used to present people how to adress someone role properly, for example, general people taking something will just be mister or miss, if someone with a special adressing role like count or doctor would take something, it will adress them accordingly and so people around would also know how to adress that person without having to ask. Also if someone is not an AES user, it will say, so based on the sim you play, people can decide or not to aknowledge the person as he/she pretend to be. (ie, Florin and Alvaston don't aknowledge self titles outside AES RP, while Rocca and QH does on a per user basis)

What AES aim to, is to provide a growing community of RPers that will evolve withing the story they create but will actually evolve and not start at the top from day 1.

What I can say is AES is still in development and still have lot to be added in, it will never be a match to everyone, but it will for sure be the perfect match for some people

Interesting and informative. Thank you.